New Toy

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curtludwig
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New Toy

Postby curtludwig » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:10 pm

I've been looking for a small loader machine to keep at camp, finally found something I could afford.

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1977 Cub Cadet 1650. Tractor is great, loader is fair. Looks to be homemade and then modified by somebody else. I got it cheap because the PTO clutch wouldn't engage. Yesterday I farted around and found the wire to the clutch on the hydraulic pump was broken and grounding to the frame. Love those easy fixes...

ALL the hydraulic cylinders are too long. The bucket won't rest flat on the ground because the lift rams are 2-3 inches too long. The bucket cylinder is more like 8 inches too long and the top mount is really bad. I'm going to take all the cylinders off, put the bucket flat on the ground and measure for new cylinders. I'll cut that terrible crossbar off and replace with something better.

Finally I want a shorter/taller fluid reservior Image

I think everything on the machine is Tractor Supply parts, I ought to be able to find something that doesn't stick out so far...

Edit: A little research shows that Surplus Center has the same reservoir, they call it 5 gallons. Theres a 3 gallon unit that seems like a much better size, they say the one I have is 14.25"x12.5"x8.625, the smaller one is 9.75" x 11.25" x 8.625" so considerably less stupid looking and not as likely to get smacked on something while reversing.

I was curious if there would be enough capacity so I played with an online calculator suggests that the cylinders will be something like .2gal each so together far less than 1 gallon. I don't expect this machine to get super heavy use so I'm not terribly worried about heat.
Oh and I need to add a filter, gotta figure where to put that. What I've read suggests it ought to be at the tank which I hate since it'll be hanging out back, gotta think on that.

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Grove r
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Re: New Toy

Postby Grove r » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:30 pm

Hi Curt, nice little unit you have there.....suggestion on the too long cylender problem......I have shortened them for other applications when too long, if you have a lathe cut a chunk out of the barrel, cut and rethread the tie bolts, cut the clevis end off the rod and shorten to specs, reweld and yer done........just a suggestion, and ask me, I know it works........

have a good one,
Ron.E.

curtludwig
Posts: 139
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Re: New Toy

Postby curtludwig » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:25 pm

Oh man, I wish I had a lathe that big ;)
Well that and I wish I knew how to use a lathe...

For now it'll be new cylinders, I suspect I can sell the used ones to somebody who needs bigger cylinders so my total cost won't be that much. I'm going to start with the bucket cylinder since that wants a new brace anyway.

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Fawteen
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Re: New Toy

Postby Fawteen » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:15 am

Nice little toy!

I'd be interested in the cylinders, shoot me a email with details.

On the tank, how about just rotating it a quarter turn?
What do you mean I can't do that?

curtludwig
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:31 am

Re: New Toy

Postby curtludwig » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:48 am

Just last night I had the same idea about the tank. Dunno why I didn't think of it before...

The cylinders all appear to be 2x16" 2500psi. Thats whats on the sticker on the bucket cylinder anyway. That one is a Grizzly brand, the others appear to be the same but painted over. I'll make you a heckuva deal ;)

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Fawteen
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Re: New Toy

Postby Fawteen » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:45 pm

Ooooooooooooo...2x16 would be POIFECK for a little project I have in mind!
What do you mean I can't do that?

curtludwig
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Re: New Toy

Postby curtludwig » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:30 pm

Well let me scoot over to Surplus Center and see what I can find in a 2x12...

curtludwig
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Re: New Toy

Postby curtludwig » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:42 pm

Well heck...
Looked at my loader plans (from loaderplans.com) and he calls for a 2x16 which got me doubting the idea of going for a shorter cylinder.

Went out today and moved some snow and I'm SURE it needs a shorter cylinder. The bucket will go way beyond straight down and since the lift arms are too long the bucket can't rest flat on the ground which makes scooping a challenge. I also did some serious damage to that horrible top mount, its gotta go.

So I guess I'll order up a 2x12 and hope for the best...

I managed to spin one of the tires off the rim, I knew it was soft but it worked okay for half an hour. I took a break to refuel and then the machine wouldn't move again. Hadta get the whole blasted thing off before I could get it to seat the bead. I could hear the air coming out so made a mental note to get a tube. Moved all of 10 feet and it slipped the rim AGAIN! Guess I'll make a note for new tires and tubes. I intend to fluid fill them, don't want to do it any extra.

Image

curtludwig
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Re: New Toy

Postby curtludwig » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:17 am

Went out and measured the hydraulic tank yesterday, its too big to sit sideways, its 18" long but with the piping it comes out to more like 20", the tractor is only about 14" between the tires, anything any wider is going to hook into the chains...

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Fawteen
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Re: New Toy

Postby Fawteen » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:28 pm

Bummer. Can you cantilever it to the rear a little?
What do you mean I can't do that?

curtludwig
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Re: New Toy

Postby curtludwig » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:44 pm

Years ago I bought plans to build a loader from loaderplans.com. Looking back through those he uses the right side loader tower as the hydraulic reservoir. His towers are 3"x3" with the return line set at 8" up which gives 72 cubic inches or .3 gallons of fluid. This suggests the 5 gallon reservoir I have is way overkill. The advantage in his system is that the pickup can't really ever suck air. With my current system if I was on a sharp downhill the suction line could get uncovered.
So my current idea is to make a saddle tank that bolts to the right side upright out of 4"x4"x24" 384in3 or 1.6 gallons and lots of sq inches for shedding heat. Probably not as good as building it into the tower in the first place but better than a retrofit I think. I'm also going to add a filter to the suction line.

Edit: I went out and really looked at the towers. They actually look like they might be suitable as fluid reservoirs as-is. Looks like 4x3x20 usable as a tank (keeping the suction line up off the bottom, 240 in3 gives just over a gallon of fluid. I suppose I could use both towers linked together. Suction on one and return on the other? Seems like an extra level of complication I'm not sure about. Anyway need to drill a couple test holes...

Today's job was to get a tube into the flat tire. As always that was a bit of a pain. I see I'm going to need to replace the tires sooner rather than later, they're checked bad, but at least we're back to work.
I do love the engine in the 1650, it started right up after sitting 2 weeks like it'd been run yesterday. Its still trapped in the backyard with new sloppy wet snow so I started working up a road out of there when the entirely predictable happened:

Image

That horrible top mount for the bucket cylinder finally let go. Looking at it I'm amazed it worked at all, theres barely any penetration on that very short weld. I'm debating whats going to replace it, leaning toward 3" square tube now...

curtludwig
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Re: New Toy

Postby curtludwig » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:58 am

Its a rainy day and as the tractor is trapped in the snowy back yard yet I'm thinking about the hydraulic pump. The mount for it is really bad. The phrase "Made by angry beavers" comes to mind. I was thinking the pump was probably too big anyway, the hydraulics are really jumpy and difficult to be precise with. I don't have a ton of experience with loaders but enough to know this one moves too fast.

Image

I'll save you the zoom in, its a tyrone cp16-85c-02, one site I've found calls it a 24 gpm pump. I don't know much about pumps but I know thats waaaaaay bigger than I need, I was thinking more like 6 gpm. It also looks to be a $400 pump. I was starting to feel like this machine was a money pit but that might be turning around...

I *think* what I want is this: http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics ... 7771-B.axd which may cause me to have to change the pressure line to the controls and will require a different mount but I'm okay with that...

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GLyford
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Re: New Toy

Postby GLyford » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:18 am

It does look like something someone tried to make work with what they had on hand.

The pump on mine is 2gpm, and is plenty fast. Even then I put an adjustable flow control on the lift cylinders (has reverse check for full speed down, since I am on gravity down). I have a smaller hydraulic tank which tucks inside the frame rails between the shift lever and battery.

I wonder if the big pump is matched to the big tank, eitner they were from the same scrounge source or they tried to match capacities.

I hear you on the bucket geometry not being quite right. I swapped mine to a different tractor, and the frame was an inch or two higher off the ground, now the bucket doesn't sit flat. I am thinking I need to cut the ears off and change up my position and angle a bit, and if I do that I might as well make a poor mans quick attach (probably along the lines of one of the Deere styles). I think I will just make it easy to fabricate, I was thinking of making it fit toro dingo attachments so I could rent them, but most of the places won't rent them out without renting the base machine so it is sort of pointless. About the only other thing I could use right now is a set of forks and a tree spade, and even then I need to tread carefully to avoid needing a hoisting license to operate my own machine.

curtludwig
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:31 am

Re: New Toy

Postby curtludwig » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:12 am

I emailed with the guy that drew the loader plans I've got. He's very patient, apparently he's had do deal with dumb guys like me in the past. We settled on a 5 gpm pump he says will do fine. Not terribly expensive and if I've got to rebuild the pump mount anyway... I also spent some time learning about the different fittings.

What I had forgotten is that with a double acting cylinder you don't really need a huge tank since the cylinder always has oil in it. When the last of the snow melts and I can get the machine into the garage I'll drill a couple holes in the tower and see if anything gross flushes through. Getting rid of that tank will be nice although it'll mess up my weight distribution a little. I plan to fluid fill the tires...

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GLyford
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Re: New Toy

Postby GLyford » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:41 pm

If it hasn't been done yet, definitely do his spindle upgrade.

http://loaderplans.com/spindle-upgrade

I still had to upgrade the rest of my steering, but at least the spindles themselves haven't given me any trouble.


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